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SALVIA-COMMUNITY.net _ International _ Tv Tells Us Germans What Laws To Make!

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Feb 13 2008, 08:40

Much to my disgust I read about Germany proposing Salvia be banned: I'll bet some German Journalist demanded that this harmless medicinal plant be banned as a dangerous addictive hallucinogen. Don't bother with the FACTS: Ban it before research can be conducted into it's medicinal value.

Germany should learn from the States of California and Maine how to treat it citizens. California and Maine admit there is no ongoing public health hazards associated with this plant: no record of emergency room visits, of overdoses, of public addictive behavior - like Salvia addicts mugging old ladies to get a 'fix'. There are considerably more repercussions to arresting gardeners and taxing the remaining taxpayers MORE to house the naughty gardeners for a long time - economic and social repercussions!

Read this Please: http://sagewisdom.org/lettertocsa.pdf

It has come to my attention that there have been a lot of ‘scare tactic’ stories on TV, and radio, and in the newspaper, about the evils and dangers of our kids smoking a hallucinogenic herb. I have seen articles stating that this is the most dangerous drug to come along since marijuana, and those claiming it is addictive. When did German legislators start believing everything they see on television? Television isn’t in it for the truth, television is in it for big ratings.



“Salvia Madness” looks like a tired rerun of “Reefer Madness” to me, and media sensationalism is a poor excuse for making felons out of tens of thousands of Law abiding Germans. I have seen mostly lies and disinformation being publicly spread about this misunderstood plant, and it’s time for the truth to be told about it.


I began researching this interesting and lovely plant over three and a half years ago, and in three years I have come to be considered one of California’s leading researchers into the botany of this unique plant. The truth is, when used by responsible adults in the privacy of their own homes, there is absolutely no harm in this plant.

In fact, this plant shows great potential for producing many NEW medicines, including: painkillers, new treatments for depression, diarrhea, mood disorders, Alzheimer’s disease, and a possible treatment for cocaine addiction. This plant is the world’s most powerful, natural, and safest aphrodisiac. This plant is also very ornamental and is grown by thousands of Germans: as well as being used as a religious sacrament by many.


There are many valid arguments against making Salvia Divinorum a Schedule I substance in Germany:



• Regular gardeners should not be made into felons. Even the state of Tennessee, in their Public Chapter Number 700, provided that “It would not be a criminal offense to possess, plant, cultivate, grow, or harvest Salvia divinorum for aesthetic, landscaping, or decorative purposes. Also, this amendment does not apply to any dosage that is legally obtainable from a retail establishment without a prescription when it is recognized by the FDA as a homeopathic drug.” Likewise, the states of Maine, California, and Georgia do not prohibit gardeners’ from landscaping with this plant.



• This plant has great potential therapeutic value. Recent research has indicated compounds in this plant may be the key to understanding and finally breaking the cycle of cocaine addiction. To attempt to ban the plant, in the name of the war on drugs, that could possibly be the means to ending the need for some of the war on drugs in the first place, would be the height of well meaning ignorance. If you ban further research with these plants, that might be key research in determining how to block the molecular pathways that cause cocaine addiction, you have only made the world a worse place to live in, and HINDERED yourselves in the war on drugs.



• This Plant is Non-Addictive. No one has ever died of an overdose. It is a natural healing sacrament with a long history of being used by spiritual seekers in religious settings. There should not be a law banning adults from choosing to use this plant as a religious sacrament. Just because you do not know anyone who goes to O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal (UDV) does not mean it is not a church. "The Religious Freedom Restoration Act was adopted by Congress to ensure that the government does not interfere with religious practices absent a compelling justification"

• There is a team of Doctors at the University of Iowa, under Dr. Thomas Prisinzano, with funding from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), that are now studying salvinorin A and attempting to develop derivatives that could be useful for treating methamphetamine and cocaine dependence.



• The American Civil Liberties Union, with their Center for Cognitive Liberty and Ethics, has published a PDF Pamphlet explaining why Salvia Divinorum is not suitable for scheduling. http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/pdf/salvia_dea.pdf



• Germany does not have the millions or billions of extra enforcement funds to throw away by making citizens into criminals.



• Germany does not have the thousands of extra jail cells to put all these proposed new felons in. Germany will need to build new prisons to relieve overcrowding.

• For every German incarcerated for growing plants: Germany loses a taxpayer and must spend more Tax Funds to house and feed them in punishment. You reduce the available income to the government while requiring an increase of funds expenditures at the same time: a Double hit to the German Economy every time an innocent gardener is persecuted for growing harmless plants in this latest "Witch Hunt" ...

• Tell those Nazis not to attempt to legislate their Christian morals onto your pagan lifestyle, and to find more constructive ways to spend public law enforcement funds: Like spending it to catch Rapists and Murderers maybe?

Tell your lawmakers that Germany NEEDS Safer Anesthetics and new treatments for Alzheimer's and depression and that scare stories are about to make you BAN a Cure for Addictions!

I'll get down off my soapbox now but advise you ALL to write your legislative representatives protesting the loss of your liberties one at a time! Speak up about this freedom: let your voices be collectively heard or shut up and let them drown you out with their false fears ...

Grrrrrrrrrrrr I'm so pissed off about this! Does Germany have no due process to prevent religious persecution or other abuse of official power? Is there no reasonable argument to the self destructive economic policy of warring on Germany's own citizens over a HARMLESS Plant?

Carl McCall - Salvia Researcher.

Geschrieben von: Amalgam Feb 13 2008, 08:59

QUOTE(Sea Mac @ Feb 13 2008, 08:40)
Grrrrrrrrrrrr I'm so pissed off about this!
*


I think there's no one on this board who doesn't share your opinions. You run into open doors here.

Actually there were not sooo much media scare tactics here. The decision was made within the responsible governmental groups. The reason which were given are very unclear, e.g. they wrote half a year ago an open response to a request in which they stated that they have no knowlegde whatsoever about the widespread of Salvia divinorum use in Germany; it basically said "we have no idea and don't care a lot for now".
Nevertheless they now tell it's beginning to widespread, that they are possibilities that it may causes psychosis or other "medicinal problems". They haven't presented (or at least) cited yet any scientific proof for their claims. Not even a selfmade statistic. Nothing.

Some guys here call it "the evidence that Germany is not a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsstaat anymore"...

Geschrieben von: Glassmoon Feb 13 2008, 12:34

Yep, nothing to do with TV here. Even our thread gathering newspaper articles about the plant is rather empty.

Letters have already been written at least on the open platform abgeordnetenwatch, where members of the Bundestag answer questions. As of now querists have only been pointed to the «kleine Anfrage der Grünen» (small survey of the green party) Amalgam mentioned, where the only information to be found is that there was nothing known about physical, mental or social harm.

When asked about why a law is passed on behalf of the lack of knowledge, the answer referred to the conclusions of the medical committee, which was summoned for this case. Still no evidence has been produced, though it would be mandatory for the german equivalent of your schedule I.


Sorry for my english, this topic clearly exceeds my vocabulary :/
Glass

Geschrieben von: sup? Feb 13 2008, 15:01

The problem is that the pharmaceutical industry has more influence on the government (through lobbyists) than the citizens whose rights are restricted.
They don't care about the additional costs because the taxpayers pay them at last... mad.gif

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Feb 13 2008, 20:28

QUOTE(Glassmoon @ Feb 13 2008, 04:34)
Yep, nothing to do with TV here. Even our thread gathering newspaper articles about the plant is rather empty.

Letters have already been written at least on the open platform abgeordnetenwatch, where members of the Bundestag answer questions. As of now querists have only been pointed to the «kleine Anfrage der Grünen» (small survey of the green party) Amalgam mentioned, where the only information to be found is that there was nothing known about physical, mental or social harm.

When asked about why a law is passed on behalf of the lack of knowledge, the answer referred to the conclusions of the medical committee, which was summoned for this case. Still no evidence has been produced, though it would be mandatory for the german equivalent of your schedule I.


Sorry for my english, this topic clearly exceeds my vocabulary :/
Glass
*


Your English is understandable: I couldn't have posted that rant in German. I was hoping for some feedback - and I was also hoping to learn a little more about the German process for law making.

I really wanted to title it "TV tells us Illinois Folks what Laws to make!" Since that is apparently what was what happened. TV Scared Ignorant Legislators in Illinois by telling them it was an addictive hallucinogen getting the grade school kids "Hooked" and they promptly Declared it addictive and made it a Felony WITHOUT Doing any research!

Anyone that has RESEARCHED this Plant KNOWS It has NO Addictive potential and it is VERY Plain that Illinois Legislators are not capable of doing ANY research beyond TV sound bites with no Factual Basis!

I AM extremely pleased that Germany will have to PROVE this plant is Dangerous before banning it. The research is VERY Promising for many new medicines to come from this plant and I am going to make sure you people in this forum have enough facts to scream the ignorant fears down.

All I ask is for Salvia to have her fair day in court. Let the Government try to prove harm from this Non-Toxic Plant! Let the Government try to deny that any useful medicines can come from this plant! It Can be proved otherwise! What the German Government needs to realize is that this is an "Adults Only" substance and that restricting sales to Minors is wholly appropriate - but NOT to make criminals out of Law Abiding German gardeners without justification.

Here in California salvia activist activities prevented the California Legislators from making it a Felony in the last year - I myself WROTE Letters Publicly opposing AB259 as it was originally written!

Last year Assemblyman Adams Introduced Assembly Bill AB259 proposing that everyone that touches that plant be declared a dangerous felon. A public outcry followed and the bill did not pass committee but a reconsideration was granted to try again.

I wrote this Letter: http://members.cox.net/sageseeds/ab259.html and Mailed it on Quality Resume paper by certified Mail. I was listed as one of the "Seven Private Citizens" officially opposed to AB259.

And then a Wonderful thing happened: the assemblyman that sponsored the original bill READ the opposition Letters AND DID some RESEARCH! He realized that this ISN'T a Dangerous plant and rewrote the text of AB259: "It shall be a Misdemeanor to provide Salvia to someone under 18".

That passed committee unopposed and is well on it's way to being Section 379 of the California penal code! Any State that has Examined the evidence has concluded this is NOT a Dangerous addictive plant and can find no evidence for any public health hazards associated with it.

But a Few States have passed exactly the Laws the TV set TOLD Them To!

Advocacy has stopped wrongful legislation from being passed in a half dozen states here in the US and has proved that when concerned citizens speak up the justification for making gardeners felons disappears. If no one speaks out then the TV campaigns its sound bites unopposed and does grave economic damage by jailing thousands of innocent gardeners!

I want Germany's laws to follow the states of Maine and California and NOT to follow the lead of the retards in Illinois - where TV Sound bites are all that are needed to pass unjust laws!

So, pardon the aggressive title on this topic: I just wanted to be SURE that everyone spoke up! I will be glad to provide links to the ongoing research so you have knowledge to fight ignorance with!

Geschrieben von: horst2k5 Feb 13 2008, 20:49

QUOTE(Sea Mac @ Feb 13 2008, 20:28)
I AM extremely pleased that Germany will have to PROVE this plant is Dangerous before banning it.


The theory says so but in fact there has no research been done as far as i know.
This friday the Bundesrat ist about to finaly decide if Salvia Divinorum (the Plant and Parts of the Plant, NOT Salvinorin) is declared illegal. The Bundestag already did and i don't see why the Bundesrat should turn his mind. This sucks.

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Feb 13 2008, 22:32

QUOTE(horst2k5 @ Feb 13 2008, 12:49)
QUOTE(Sea Mac @ Feb 13 2008, 20:28)
I AM extremely pleased that Germany will have to PROVE this plant is Dangerous before banning it.


The theory says so but in fact there has no research been done as far as i know.
This friday the Bundesrat ist about to finaly decide if Salvia Divinorum (the Plant and Parts of the Plant, NOT Salvinorin) is declared illegal. The Bundestag already did and i don't see why the Bundesrat should turn his mind. This sucks.
*


So: in the name of German fair-mindedness they announce Jan 23rd that they will ban something - allow no public comment to be submitted - and by Feb 15th have it declared illegal with nothing you can do about it?

The evidence that Germany is not a Rechtsstaat anymore is overwhelming: you poor people live in a dictatorship run by committees - and the committees flaunt your powerlessness over them by stealing Germans personal liberties one at a time under your very public noses!

How about this Angle: you form a Legally incorporated "Church of the Green Sacrament" TODAY before they legally declare this plant to be an offense against God - and fight them under the freedom accorded to spiritual practices? Our could your legislators legally ban, say, any German from Worshiping at the Church of England just because it offended them? Does Germany even PRETEND to have freedom of religious practices: the way America does? How can you prevent German committee dictators from banning your spiritual sacraments ESPECIALLY as they cannot prove them harmful?

Why is there no public say on what laws are made by those committees?

What is to prevent them from declaring some thing ELSE they are afraid of to be illegal next: say, like the Jews? How much further behind can the return of the Concentration Camp be if it only takes 3 weeks for "Committee Members" to make up and ram through into law unpopular laws: with no comments allowed by the people? "We say all gardeners of this Plant are now all felons!" "And YOU Have no say about what we say: WE are the Decider's!"

I don't see that as the actions of a "Free Country" - I see you as only having ONE Freedom Left: the Freedom to conform to what your "Government" mandates, or the Freedom to go to Jail for not marching in lockstep with your fellow slaves! "THEY" are in power now and there is no way they will EVER give deciding power BACK to you! And you can't make them ha-ha-ha: you have to obey their every whim!

I'm 3 times more pissed off now than I was when I began this dialog. I want to help - Make me the founder of your church or something: so if they extradite me I'll give them a piece of my mind! (A Very little piece: I don't have much left!) Look for ANY loophole - like a Church or a Research Institute - to found today: so you can FORCE the issue into a hearing or court!

If you can't: you must resign to live happily with your ONE Freedom left!

Geschrieben von: Sai Feb 13 2008, 22:35

QUOTE
All I ask is for Salvia to have her fair day in court. Let the Government try to prove harm from this Non-Toxic Plant! Let the Government try to deny that any useful medicines can come from this plant! It Can be proved otherwise! What the German Government needs to realize is that this is an "Adults Only" substance and that restricting sales to Minors is wholly appropriate - but NOT to make criminals out of Law Abiding German gardeners without justification.


The Paragraph wich is used(abused sad.gif ) to commit ist says:
- Addiction possible
or
- big abuse and danger for the health


Someone else said it, there is a Committee(Pharma community, Physicians community and animal physician community) which speaks to some Members of the goverment.
To adopt the Law it's enough when the committee sais it' dangerous, facts are not necessairy.
But there is a chance to sue against that after it is committed, but before not.

Geschrieben von: horst2k5 Feb 13 2008, 23:23

There is not much doubt that s.d. will be illegal by the next week but it is another thing how the judges will use this. There is a realistic chance that they will recognize the lack off reasons in the illegalization of s.d.. This whole process has happend almost covered from the public eye. I don't think this is an irreversible one. Someday there will be scientifical studies that proof s.d. is a drug with a minimum of risk when used with responsibility and even those blinded politicians will perceive it .. i hope.

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Feb 14 2008, 00:08

QUOTE(horst2k5 @ Feb 13 2008, 12:49)
QUOTE(Sea Mac @ Feb 13 2008, 20:28)
I AM extremely pleased that Germany will have to PROVE this plant is Dangerous before banning it.


The theory says so but in fact there has no research been done as far as i know.

*



Nonsense! LOTS of research has been done - in English!

Shake This Printed out sheaf of FACTS and Research in their faces on Friday and say "Here are the Facts you PURPOSELY IGNORED: Your 'medical committee' of lobbyist hand picked stooges Could not possibly have had time to review all this research in the 2 weeks you've been at this! Show us the 'research' and the credentials of your secret panel of experts!"

I've found a LOT of research over at http://sagewisdom.org and you should print these and take to the 'hearing' (If there is one)!

QUOTE
Articles from Scientific Journals and Other Publications
(Some of the following files are in PDF format. You'll need the http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html to view them) 

 
 

http://sagewisdom.org/reisfield.html
by Reisfield AS.  SIDA  15: 349-366 (1993).
This web-optimized version of Reisfield's paper includes lots of great photos.


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/siebertjep94.pdf
by http://sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html  Journal of Ethnopharmacology.  43: 53–56 (1994). This paper is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://aob.oupjournals.org/cgi/reprint/93/6/763.pdf?ijkey=55zbQRbeCanlM&keytype=ref
by http://sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html.  Annals of Botany  93(6): 763–771 (2004). This paper is in PDF format.[/url]



    http://sagewisdom.org/phytochemical.html
by Gruber JW, http://sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html Der Marderosian AH, and Hock RS.  Phytochemical Analysis  10(1):22–25 (1999).

 



 
    http://sagewisdom.org/pnas.pdf
by Roth BL, Baner K, Westkaemper R, http://sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html Rice KC, Steinberg S, Ernsberger P, and Rothman RB.
  PNAS.  99(18): 11934–11939 (2002). This document is in PDF format.

Supporting information: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/data/182234399/DC1/1, http://www.pnas.org/cgi/data/182234399/DC1/2, http://www.pnas.org/cgi/data/182234399/DC1/4.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/chavkinetal.pdf  http://sagewisdom.org/chavkinetal.pdf

by Chavkin C, Sud S, Jin W, Stewart J, Zjawiony JK, http://sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html Toth BA, Hufeisen SJ, and Roth BL.
  The Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.  308(3): 1197–1203 (2004). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/wangetal.pdf

http://sagewisdom.org/wangetal.pdf
by Wang Y, Tang K, Inan S, http://sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html Holzgrabe U, Lee DYW, Huang P, Li JG, Cowan A, and Liu-Chen LY.
  The Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics.  312(1): 220–230 (2005).

 

    
   
    
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by http://sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html.  The Entheogen Review.  Vol. 12 No. 4, Winter 2003.  

 
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by Vortherms TA and Roth BL.  Molecular Interventions.  Vol.6 No.5 (2006). This review article is in PDF format.

 

 
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http://sagewisdom.org/vorthermsetal.pdf
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http://sagewisdom.org/butelmanetal-2.pdf
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by http://sagewisdom.org/wasson.html  Botanical Museum Leaflets Harvard University  (1962).
 

 
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by http://sagewisdom.org/wasson.html  Botanical Museum Leaflets Harvard University  (1963).
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/mazatecsalviaprep.html
Photo taken in 1962 by http://sagewisdom.org/wasson.html
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/hofmann.html
by http://www.lycaeum.org/graphics/people/hofmann/index.html From:   LSD: My Problem Child   (1979).

 

 
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by Ortega A, Blount JF, Manchand PS.  Journal of the Chemical Society Perkins Transactions I  (1982). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
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by L.J. Valdés J III,  et al.   Journal of Ethnopharmacology  (1983).

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/etnofarm.html An Italian translation of the above.
 

 
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by L.J. Valdés III,  et al.   Journal of Organic Chemistry  (1984).
 

 
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by L.J. Valdés III,  et al.   Economic Botany  (1987).

 

 
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by L.J. Valdés III.  Journal of Psychoactive Drugs  (1994).

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/divinorinc.html
Lab notes from the desk of L. J. Valdés III.  The  Salvia divinorum  Research and Information Center  (2000).

 

 
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by L.J. Valdés III,  et al.   Organic Letters  (2001).

 

 
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by L. J. Valdés III.  The Entheogen Review  (2001) X(2): [73-75]
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/valdesphotos.html by L.J. Valdés III
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/stereochemistry.html Also available in PDF format http://sagewisdom.org/valdes90.pdf.
by Koreeda, M.,  et al.   Chemistry Letters  (1990).

 


 
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by Fantegrossi WE, Kugle KM, Valdιs LJ III, Koreeda M, Woods JH.   Behavioural pharmacology.  16(8): 627-633 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/salvinorind-f.pdf
And http://sagewisdom.org/salvinorinsd-f-supporting.pdf by Munro TA, Rizzacasa MA.   Journal of Natural Products.  66(5): 703-705 (2003). These two documents are in PDF format.


 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/divinatorinsa-c.pdf And http://sagewisdom.org/divinatorinsa-c-supporting.pdf
by Bigham AK, Munro TA, Rizzacasa MA, Robins-Browne RM.
  Journal of Natural Products.  66(9): 1242-1244 (2003). These two documents are in PDF format.


 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/munroetal.pdf
And http://sagewisdom.org/munroetalsup.pdfby Munro T, Rizzacasa M, Roth BL, Toth B, Yan F
  Journal of Medicinal Chemistry.  48(2): 345–348 (2005). This document is in PDF format.


 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/munroetal2.pdf
And http://sagewisdom.org/munroetal2sup.pdfby Munro T, Goetchius G, Roth BL, Vortherms T, Rizzacasa M.
  Journal of Organic Chemistry.  70(24): 10057-10061 (2005). This document is in PDF format.


 


 
    http://bjoc.beilstein-journals.org/content/pdf/1860-5397-3-1.pdf
by Munro TA, Duncan KK, Staples RJ, Xu W, Liu-Chen LY, Beguin C, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen BM.
  Beilstein Journal of Organic Chemistry.  Epub ahead of print (2007). This document is in PDF format.


 


 
    http://eprints.infodiv.unimelb.edu.au/archive/00002327/01/Munro2006thesis.pdf
by Thomas Munro. PhD dissertation. This is a large (283 pages - 6.32 MB) document, in PDF format.

 

   
    
    http://sagewisdom.org/munroetal3.pdf
by Munro TA, Duncan KK, Xu W, Wang Y, Liu-Chen LY, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen BM, Beguin C.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry.  [Epub ahead of print October 24, 2007]. This document is in PDF format.

 
 
 
 
    http://sagewisdom.org/jclinpsych.html

by Karl R. Hanes, PhD.  Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology  (2001).
 

 
    http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v13n1/13118han.pdf
by Hanes KR.  MAPS Bulletin  13(1): 18–20 (2003). This paper is in PDF format.
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/grundmannetal.pdf
by Grundmann O, Phipps SM, Zadezensky I, Butterweck V.
  Planta Medica  73(10): 1039–1046 (2007). This paper is in PDF format.
 

 

    http://sagewisdom.org/bucheleretal.pdf  http://sagewisdom.org/bucheleretal.pdf
by Bόcheler R, Gleiter CH, Schwoerer P, and Gaertner I.
Pharmacopsychiatry. 38(1): 1–5 (2005). This paper is in PDF format.
 


 

    http://sagewisdom.org/tidgewelletal.pdf
by Kevin Tidgewell, Wayne W. Harding, Mark Schmidt, Kenneth G. Holden, Daryl J. Murry, and Thomas E. Prisinzano.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  14(20): 5099-5102 (2004). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/hardingetal.pdf
by Harding WW, Tidgewell K, Schmidt M, Shah K, Dersch CM, Snyder J, Parrish D, Deschamps JR, Rothman RB, Prisinzano TE.
  Organic Letters.  7(14): 3017–3020 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/hardingetal2.pdf
by Harding WW, Tidgewell K, Byrd N, Cobb H, Dersch CM, Butelman ER, Rothman RB, Prisinzano TE.
  Journal of Medicinal Chemistry.  48(15): 4765–4771 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/groeretal.pdf
by Groer CE, Tidgewell K, Moyer RA, Harding WW, Rothman RB, Prisinzano TE, Bohn LM.
  Molecular Pharmacology.  71(2): 549–557 (2007). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/rothmanetal.pdf
by Rothman RB, Murphy DL, Xu H, Godin JA, Dersch CM, Partilla JS, Tidgewell K, Schmidt M, Prisinzano TE.
  Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.  320(2): 801–810 (2007). This document is in PDF format.

 

 

    http://sagewisdom.org/schmidtetal.pdf
by Schmidt MS, Prisinzano TE, Tidgewell K, Harding W, Butelman ER, Kreek MJ, and Murry DJ.
  Journal of Chromatography. B.  818(2): 221–225 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/schmidtetal2.pdf

by Schmidt MD, Schmidt MS, Butelman ER, Harding WW, Tidgewell K, Murry DJ, Kreek MJ, Prisinzano TE.
  Synapse.  58(3): 208–210 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/prisinzano.pdf

by Prisinzano TE.
  Life Sciences.  78(5): 527-531 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/hardingetal3.pdf  http://sagewisdom.org/hardingetal3.pdf

by Harding WW, Schmidt M, Tidgewell K, Kannan P, Holden KG, Gilmour B, Navarro H, Rothman RB, Prisinzano TE.
  Journal of Natural Products.  69(1): 107–112 (2006). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/hardingetal4.pdf

by Harding WW, Schmidt M, Tidgewell K, Kannan P, Holden KG, Dersch CM, Rothman RB, Prisinzano TE.
  Bioorganic & Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  16(12): 3170–3174. This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/tidgewelletal2.pdf

by Tidgewell K, Harding WW, Lozama A, Cobb H, Shah K, Kannan P, Dersch CM, Parrish D, Deschamps JR, Rothman RB, Prisinzano TE.
  Journal of Natural Products.  69(6): 914–918 (2006). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/simpsonetal.pdf

by Simpson DS, Katavic PL, Lozama A, Harding WW, Parrish D, Deschamps JR, Dersch CM, Partilla JS, Rothman RB, Navarro H, Prisinzano TE.
  Journal of Medicinal Chemistry.  [ePublished ahead of print Jun 20, 2007]. This document is in PDF format.

 
   
      
    
    http://sagewisdom.org/holdenetal.pdf

by Holden KG, Tidgewell K, Marquam A, Rothman RB, Navarro H, Prisinzano TE.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  . 17(22): 6111–6115 (2008). This document is in PDF format.

 
   

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/shirotaetal.pdf
And http://sagewisdom.org/shirotaetalerrata.pdf by Shirota O, Nagamatsu K, Sekita S.

  Journal of Natural Products.  69(12): 1782–1786. (2006). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/scheereretal.pdf
by Scheerer JR, Lawrence JF, Wang GC, Evans DA.

Supporting information http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/jacsat/suppinfo/ja073590a/ja073590asi20070621_111746.pdf (4 MB file).
  Journal of the American Chemical Society.  [ePublished ahead of print June 30, 2007]. This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/pichinietal.pdf  http://sagewisdom.org/pichinietal.pdf

by Pichini S, Abanades S, Farre M, Pellegrini M, Marchei E, Pacifici R, Torre RD, and Zuccaro P.
  Rapid Communications in Mass Spectrometry.  19(12): 1649–1656 (2005). This paper is in PDF format.
  

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/beguinetal.pdf
by Beguin C, Richards MR, Wang Y, Chen Y, Liu-Chen LY, Ma Z, Lee DY, Carlezon WA Jr, and Cohen BM.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  15(11): 2761–2765 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/leeetal2.pdf
by Lee DY, Karnati VV, He M, Liu-Chen LY, Kondareti L, Ma Z, Wang Y, Chen Y, Beguin C, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen B.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  15(16): 3744–3747 (2005). This document is in PDF format.
 

 

    http://sagewisdom.org/leeetal1.pdf
by Lee DY, He M, Kondaveti L, Liu-Chen LY, Ma Z, Wang Y, Chen Y, Li JG, Beguin C, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen B.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  Jul 25, 2005 [Epub ahead of print]. This document is in PDF format.
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/leeetal3.pdf

by Lee DY, Ma Z, Liu-Chen LY, Wang Y, Chen Y, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen B.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  Aug 3, 2005 [Epub ahead of print]. This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/leeetal4.pdf
by Lee DY, He M, Liu-Chen LY, Wang Y, Li JG, Xu W, Ma Z, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen B

  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  16(21): 5498–5502 (2006). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/carlezonetal.pdf
by Carlezon Jr WA, Beguin C, Dinieri JA, Baumann MH, Richards MR, Todtenkopf MS, Rothman RB, Ma Z, Lee DY, Cohen BM.
  Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.  316(1): 440–447 (2006). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/beguinetal2.pdf
by Beguin C, Richards MR, Li JG, Wang Y, Xu W, Liu-Chen LY, Carlezon WA Jr, Cohen BM.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  16(17): 4679–4685 (2006). This document is in PDF format.
 


    http://sagewisdom.org/beguinetal3.pdf
by Beguin C, Potter DN, Dinieri JA, Munro TA, Richards MR, Paine TA, Berry L, Zhao Z, Roth BL, Xu W, Liu-Chen LY, Carlezon Jr WA, Cohen BM.
  The Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.  324(1): 188–195 (2008). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
http://sagewisdom.org/chartoffetal.pdf

by Chartoff EH, Potter D, Damez-Werno D, Cohen BM, Carlezon WA Jr
  Neuropsychopharmacology.  [Epub ahead of print Jan 9, 2008]. This paper is in PDF format.
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/yanetal.pdf
by Yan F, Mosier PD, Westkaemper RB, Stewart J, Zjawiony JK, Vortherms TA, Sheffler DJ, Roth BL.
  Biochemistry.  44(24): 8643–8651 (2005). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/gineretal.pdf
by Giner JL, Kiemle DJ, Kutrzeba L, Zjawiony J.
  Magnetic Resonance in Chemistry.  45(4): 351–354 (2007). This document is in PDF format.
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/kutrzebaetal.pdf
by Kutrzeba L, Dayan FE, Howell J, Feng J, Giner JL, Zjawiony JK.
  Phytochemistry.  68(14): 1872–1881 (2007). This document is in PDF format.
 


 

    http://sagewisdom.org/bikbulatovetal.pdf
by Bikbulatov RV, Yan F, Roth BL, Zjawiony JK.
  Bioorganic and Medicinal Chemistry Letters.  17(8): 2229–2232 (2007). This document is in PDF format.
 



    http://sagewisdom.org/bikbulatovetal2.pdf

by Bikbulatov RV, Stewart J, Jin W, Yan F, Roth BL, Ferreira D, Zjawiony JK.
  Tetrahedron Letters.  49: 937–940 (2008). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/linghametal.pdf
by Lingham AR, Hόgel HM, Rook TJ.

  Australian Journal of Chemistry.  59(5): 340–348 (2006). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/medanaetal.pdf
by Medana C, Massolino C, Pazzi M, Baiocchi C.

  Rapid Communications in Mass Spectrometry.  20(2): 131–136 (2005). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/wolowichetal.pdf
by Wolowich WR, Perkins AM, Cienki JJ.

  Pharmacotherapy.  26(9): 1268–1272(2006). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/trentinietal.pdf
by Trentini, John F., Larry G. French, and Joseph S. Erlichman.
  European Journal of Pharmacology.  545 (2–3): 129–133 (2006). This document is in PDF format.

 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/mccurdyetal.pdf
by McCurdy CR, Sufka KJ, Smith GH, Warnick JE, Nieto MJ.
  Pharmacology, Biochemistry, and Behavior.  [Epub ahead of print Jan 20, 2006]. This document is in PDF format.
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/kaneetal.pdf
by Kane BE, Nieto MJ, McCurdy CR, Ferguson DM.
  FEBS Journal.  273(9): 1966–1974 (2006). This document is in PDF format.
 


 

    http://sagewisdom.org/singhetal.pdf
http://sagewisdom.org/singhetal.pdf
by Singh N, Chevé G, Ferguson DM, McCurdy CR.
  Journal of Computer-Aided Molecular Design.  20(7–8): 471–493 (2006). This document is in PDF format.
 



    http://sagewisdom.org/willmore-fordhametal.pdf
by Willmore-Fordham CB, Krall DM, McCurdy CR, Kinder DH.
  Neuropharmacology.  53(4): 481–486 (2007). This document is in PDF format.
 



    http://sagewisdom.org/lietal.pdf
by Li JX, Rice KC, France CP.
  Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.  [Epub ahead of print Novevember 9, 2007]. This document is in PDF format.
 



    http://sagewisdom.org/burnsetal.pdf

by Burns AC, Forsyth CJ.
  Organic Letters.  10(1): 97–100 (2008). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/berteaetal.pdf
by Bertea CM, Luciano P, Bossi S, Leoni F, Baiocchi C, Medana C, Azzolin CM, Temporale G, Lombardozzi MA, Maffei ME.

  Phytochemistry.  67(4): 371–378 (2006). This document is in PDF format.
 



    http://sagewisdom.org/maruyamaetal.pdf
by Maruyama T, Kamakura H, Kikura-Hanajiri R, Goda Y.

  Yakugaku Zasshi.  128(1): 179–183 (2008). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/braidaetal.pdf
by Braida D, Limonta V, Pegorini S, Zani A, Guerini-Rocco C, Gori E, Sala M.
  Psychopharmacology.  190(4): 441–448 (2007). This document is in PDF format.

 



    http://sagewisdom.org/braidaetal2.pdf
by Braida D, Limonta V, Capurro V, Fadda P, Rubino T, Mascia P, Zani A, Gori E, Fratta W, Parolaro D, Sala M.
  Biological Psychiatry.  63(3): 286–292 (2008). This document is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/ott2.html
by Jonathan Ott.  Curare . 18(1): 103-129 (1995).
 

 

    http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/pubblicazioni.jsp?ID_LINK=111247&area=3
by Jonathan Ott. Eleusis, n. 4, pp. 31-39, 1996.
 



    http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/pubblicazioni.jsp?ID_LINK=111236&area=3 An Italian translation of the above.
 

 
http://sagewisdom.org/zhangetal.html  by Zhang Y, Butelman ER, Schlussman SD, Ho A, Kreek MJ.
 

 
http://sagewisdom.org/zhangetal.pdf  http://sagewisdom.org/zhangetal.pdf
Zhang et al.  Psychopharmacology (Berl).  179(3): 551–558 (2005). This paper is in PDF format.
 


 
http://sagewisdom.org/wannemacheretal.pdf
by Wannemacher KM, Yadav PN, Howells RD.
  Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapies.  [Epub ahead of print Aug 24, 2007]. This paper is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/kugleetal.html  This study demonstrates that salvinorin A is active in vivo at kappa opioid receptors.

 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/baggottetal.html  This survey characterized the reasons, methods, and reported consequences of  Salvia divinorum  use.
 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/gonzalesetal.pdf  by Gonz&#225lez D, Riba J, Bouso JC, G&#243mez-Jarabo G, Barbanoj MJ.    Drug and Alcohol Dependence.  85(2): 157–162 (2006). This paper is in PDF format.


 

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/siemannetal.pdf  [Abstract in English and German. Article in German only].  by Siemann H, Specka M, Schifano F, Deluca P, Scherbaum N.    Gesundheitswesen.  68(5): 323–327 (2006). This paper is in PDF format.


 
   
  
    
    http://sagewisdom.org/hooveretal.pdf
         by Hoover V, Marlowe DB, Patapis NS, Festinger DS, Forman RF.    Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment.  [Epub ahead of print Oct 9, 2007]. This paper is in PDF format.


 
   
        
    http://sagewisdom.org/langeetal.pdf
         by Lange JE, Reed MB, Croff JM, Clapp JD.
           Drug and Alcohol Dependence.  [Epub ahead of print Dec 17, 2007]. This paper is in PDF format.


 
   

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/rovinsky.html
by Sherry A. Rovinsky.  McNair Scholarly Review  (1998).

 


 
http://sagewisdom.org/giroudetal.pdf
Giroud et al.  Forensic Science International.  112(2–3): 143–150 (2000). This paper is in PDF format.
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/dmturnerbook.html An extraordinary book by D.M.Turner (1996).
 


 
    http://sagewisdom.org/munn.html by Henry Munn. This essay provides valuable insight into the Mazatec shamanic world. 

 
   

 
    http://sagewisdom.org/novascreen.html
 


 
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/references/other/1997_campbell_resproject_1.shtml by Robert Campbell. An article from TRP Magazine (1997).

 
   

 
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_cultivation1.shtml by Will Beifuss. An article from TRP Magazine (1997).
 
   
   
    
     http://www.maps.org/media/salvia_story-final.pdf by Christopher Ketcham. Published in  GQ  magazine. June, 2007.



If they said there was NO RESEARCH then they LIED To You! Just like "They have Weapons of Mass Destruction!" tell them ANYTHING to get your way!

Take some printed facts and ask to compare them with the 'facts' THEY used "to be sure they had the complete set"!

Or are ALL laws in Germany made by committee, behind closed doors, with secret panels of "experts" they hand picked themselves? Where in this process do the people have their say? Only in the first 3 hours after they announce their intent? After that they go "Too Late! You can't submit any more evidence now!"

Somebody wanna explain to me how any of this process can be equated with freedom? I'm righteously pissed off now! devil.png

Best Regards, Carl P. McCall - Salvia Researcher.

Geschrieben von: horst2k5 Feb 14 2008, 11:38

QUOTE(Sea Mac @ Feb 14 2008, 00:08)
Take some printed facts and ask to compare them with the 'facts' THEY used "to be sure they had the complete set"!



They used no facts, just speculations. (sabine bätzing admittet that there were no scientifical cognitions available to them)
I think none of the persons involved in this whole process is really interested in it. They see the potentest halluzinogen .. wow must be dangerous. Then there is no real lobby (the underestimate us a bit devil.png ), so whatever.. shit on the facts, we don't wanna know them anyways.

Geschrieben von: Glassmoon Feb 14 2008, 19:22

Hello Sea Mac,
I think I overly simplified the process of decision making in favor of my own opinion, especially as I need quite a while to look up some terms that don't translate that easily.

The committee consists of medical experts, that advises the Bundestag in medical matters. The pharmacologists, pharmaceutical committee of the german medical fraternity(?), pharmacists, researchers and the German Association of the pharmaceutical Industry are to evaluate in matters which usually exceed the knowledge of the members of the Bundestag and make recommendations. The Committee has to be heard when substances are to be scheduled to prevent arbitraryness and laws based on hearsay. In this case this process obviously failed.

Then we have the Drogenbeautragte, who's job is to prevent drug abuse by clarification, gather statistics and advise the Bundestag in drug matters. The Drogenbeauftragte may have enforced the evaluation of Salvia Divinorum by the committee, but she doesn't seem to know on what basis the recommendations were made and her answers on abgeordnetenwatch.de are ambiguous. Her statements are pretty general, and as the recommendation consists of a lot of changes within the BtMG (Controlled (narcotic) Substances Schedule) the draft is not too easy to read for a layman. Needless to say the draft doesnt elaborate on the facts on which the decisions are based. So we're still in the dark, only theorising about possible clauses that could have been used to effectively outlaw the plant Salvia Divinorum.

The whole process is even more complex then that, created to protect the civilians against the state, involving independent authorities. But the range of experts obviously didn't include members with reasonable knowledge about Salvia. Not even the active substance, Salvinorin A, has been banned, which would be even more complicated. My guess is, that Salvia was rather marginally put into the schedule.


Glass

Geschrieben von: Dingo Feb 14 2008, 22:55

Hi Sea Mac,

thanks for your sympathies. This Salvia thing is really stupid.

The dangerousness of a Substance ore a Plant must be evidenced based on scientifically proven Facts to make it illegal. Thats right but take a look on the official reasons our Government argues.

QUOTE
Salvia divinorum EPLING et JÁTIVA (Zauber-
oder Aztekensalbei) enthält Inhaltsstoffe vom Typ Neoclerodanditerpene, von denen einige zu
den stärksten im Pflanzenreich existenten psychoaktiven Substanzen gehören. Der Konsum
solcher biogenen Drogen kann zu schweren Bewusstseinsveränderungen, Psychosen und
anderen gesundheitlichen Störungen führen. Wegen des Gefährdungspotenzials, der Berichte
über Missbrauchsfälle, der wachsenden Internetpräsenz der Droge und des zunehmenden
Konsumentenkreises ist eine Unterstellung unter das BtMG geboten.


I cant translate this in a proper way but this means that Salvia contains Diterpene and some Diterpene can cause mental damage. Not one word about the dangerousness of SD, only about the substance class.

Thats ridiculous but nothing against the second Argument.

The rising Internet presence.

Sea Mac, believe it or not. The Internet presence of Salvia Diviorum is dangerous enough to make it illegal here in Germany.
I have never heard such a Bullshit before. angry_talking.gif

Its the official text of a law.





....................


QUOTE(Sea Mac)
I've found a LOT of research over at http://sagewisdom.org and you should print these and take to the 'hearing' (If there is one)!


There is no hearing. We People here have no chance for any influence. The bills are secret here and if needed the Names of the Members of the expert Groups too.


QUOTE(Sea Mac)
Nonsense! LOTS of research has been done - in English!


We all know this. The Problem is that all of our politicians (corruptionist) will follow the dictatorship of the pharmaceutical industry Lobby.

Geschrieben von: lalerettich Feb 16 2008, 13:01

Thank you very much for your support. You say:

QUOTE
The evidence that Germany is not a Rechtsstaat anymore is overwhelming: you poor people live in a dictatorship run by committees - and the committees flaunt your powerlessness over them by stealing Germans personal liberties one at a time under your very public noses!


and I have to agree that germans don't live in a "Rechtsstaat" anymore. There is more and more evidence, that germany (and europe) is drifting towards a facist bueraucracy, a "Präventivstaat" with strong surveillance tendencies. For instance, the so called "Vorratsdatenspeicherung" makes it possible to trace back your communication for up to 6 months.

For more info: http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/content/view/46/1/lang,en/

This law can and will be used against drug users..the law states, that even the slightest misdeamor is enough to trace back your telecommunication.

But it's more a global problem, I'm afraid. The US also shows strong signs of facism..blackwater, police brutality, illegal wars...voting fraud and the list goes on.

THE DIFFERENCE BTWEEN THE US AND GERMANY

..is, that Civil right groups seem to be very weak compared to the united states. There's a movement against the surveillance state, but it's not strong enough to hinder illegal lawmaking. The german mentality:

"Accept everything bad as fate, grumble afterwards and carry on with your daily chores"

Maybe this is because of the hitler dictatorship....."We failed to prevent hitler, so what can we do now? Nothing!"

And in fact, the german gouvernment is far away from sanity, tossing out stupid ideas every day (if you can read german, I can recommend you heise.de).

It's good to get some outisde views ..so thank you very much for your posting!

Geschrieben von: nicita Feb 16 2008, 15:00

Thank your for your sympathy.
The prohibition of Salvia Divinorum is just a small piece of repression here in germany. There is the already mentioned "vorratsdatenspeicherung" where every german who uses any kind of telecommunication is an potential criminal for the government and therebye will be monitored. First they explained this law with their beloved "danger of terrorism" and children pornographie. Now it shall be against criminals in general.
There also are politicians who say in public that they would break the constitution if necessary and stay in office! angry_talking.gif
The citizen becomes more and more subspicious for the government. A few weeks ago there was a chain of more than 200 house searches because this people bought things like lamps and ventilation that are used for mariuhana growing online!
The signs point to an surveillance state... sick.png
Well, as soon as I get problems for something like Salvia I'll pay my taxes in another country...

greeting from the oligarchy germany sad.gif

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Feb 16 2008, 16:56

Thank you - It is a sad state indeed!

All of your "Investigative Journalists" have been jailed or gagged so no one reports publicly about obvious visible corruption in the German Government.

Freedom of Speech is the first to go: once the people's outcries are silenced the government can do as they please!

I have great Sympathy for all of you!

Did they make Salvia Illegal?

Geschrieben von: lalerettich Feb 17 2008, 11:20

QUOTE
Did they make Salvia Illegal?


Yes, the plant but not Salvinorin A (because they can't because of UNO regulations)

There are few good journalist in mainstream media who are brave enough to get the facts right. Fortunatly, the blogging scene is constantly evolving in germany and a main force behind the grwoing but still weak civil rights movement.

Most people have no interest in defending their rights because they think it's necessary to give up their rights in order to defend terrorism. They don't understand that the state is actually terrorising it's own citizens.

Another common ploy is the "war against child pornography". This year, there was a raid in propably hundreds of private housholds. The reason: They've visited a popular porn site which contained several nude pics of young girls. But here is the kicker: Most of them did not even KNOW that there were questionable content hidden somewhere on that website or they accidently clicked and left within a couple of seconds....

The whole operation resulted in several destroyed lifes ...and yep, they did not find much questionable material AT ALL!

It's all scare tactics to controll us. Many people are also very concerned about the unemployment rate and don't have any interest not doing what they're beeing told by the authorities...just because they FEAR....they fear that things would get even worse.....

..and they simply can't accept, that germany is driving the road to facism...again.

Is a comment like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcBjpsP1bU

even thinkable on german television?

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Feb 24 2008, 22:45

So sorry to hear that.
Salvia is illegal but you can import as much Salvinorin A as you like: is that right?
Pardon my rough language: but that is Simply Retarded!

Geschrieben von: Surak Feb 25 2008, 01:04

Ideas like religious freedom or freedom of speech or freedom to choose your own opinion have never been in very high esteem here in Europe, in the "old world". That is why many religious minorities have emigrated to the USA throughout its history. Nevertheless, many Germans feel comparatively safe here, as there are many structures and regulations which you can rely on - and although they make life terribly complicated and tend to diminish personal freedom in many cases, they provide a feeling of security for many - especially for those who vote for the big parties that constitute our parliament.

As far as I am concerned, I am glad that there is no such thing as capital punishment in any European state. One thing which would keep me from going to Thailand (as a case in point) would be the danger of being imprisoned and maybe even executed for having a bag of weed in my pocket or something like that. Hearing of such incidents really scares the shit out of me, to be honest...

The narcotics law here, however, is a shame and a disgrace - that's for sure! There might be U.S. states, though, which aren't any better in this respect. But thank God Germany is situated next to Holland... and the languages are very similar to one another - so if everything else fails, some of us might emigrate to Holland, which is well-known for its liberal drug policy, probably even in the U.S.?

Thank you for posting all those links concerning current salvia research. Ironically, Salvia Divinorum was recently banned here - allegedly because "current research suggests that the dangers and addictiveness of it must not be underestimated" (or words to that effect.)

So you see that our government in fact has no real interest in ANY serious research on this plant whatsoever. They just make up their own "research" - no matter if this results in little more than ridiculous fairytales of the "terrible mental and physical effects" of legal salvia divinorum. It's a sad, sad world. cwy.png

There are powerful interest groups, e.g. multinational pharmaceutical companies, which fear that plants like Salvia Divinorum might contain any substances that could show any potential to compete with any of their current or future products.

These companies have virtually unlimited financial possibilities and a great influence on Governments and so-called "drug-experts" which is a power that should not be underestimated. A possibility of patenting (and making money with) substances found in plants like cannabis and salvia is out of the question, therefore these plants are being supressed and demonized in a most successful way. I am not really surprised that this is happening - I am only surprised that it is not happening in all of the U.S. as well at the same time. Apparently your civil rights movement really does exert some influence on the government. We are constantly struggling to establish something like that here as well, but we are still taking our first baby-steps in this respect. So we really appreciate any support from you and from anyone willing to give it to us. bye.gif

Geschrieben von: systeqcs Aug 29 2009, 02:18

there is nothing you can do about it, we all know that ethnobotanical plants get banned from our states regularly, you just have to bear it... that these arguments against salvia come from germany is sad, but as long as we know that these plants are more than just "a drug" or "psychedelic substances" we can oppose these bastards who want to control our nature..
sry for my bad english but these words had to be spoken!

Geschrieben von: nOIspheratu Sep 26 2009, 18:59

I have realised that in germany, the only drugs that become illegal are this ones that dont kill you. Other things like Brugmansia Aurea or Mandragora Officinarum wich are able to kill, are legal and found in many grocery stores and plantshops!

Geschrieben von: Kant Sep 27 2009, 09:57

QUOTE
Other things like Brugmansia Aurea or Mandragora Officinarum wich are able to kill, are legal and found in many grocery stores and plantshops!

The Plants are legal as long as you dont use them as a drug.
Mescaline-Cactuses are also legal as long as...

..and heroine(illegal wink.gif) ist definetly able to kill u

Geschrieben von: sorcerer Sep 27 2009, 10:45

QUOTE
The Plants are legal as long as you dont use them as a drug.
Mescaline-Cactuses are also legal as long as...


Zwischen NSGs und Meskalin-Kakteen besteht ein Unterschied, weil NSGs keine Stoffe aus dem BtmG enthalten, Meskalin-Kakteen aber schon.
Bei NSGs ist es daher lediglich verboten, sie explizit zum Gebrauch als Droge zu verkaufen, man darf sie aber besitzen und selbst als Droge benutzen, wie man will.
Meskalin-Kakteen darf man zum Zwecke des Konsums nicht in eine Zubereitungsform bringen, der so einen Konsum leicht ermöglicht (z.B. trocknen und pulverisieren).
Trocknen und Pulverisieren ist bei NSGs komplett erlaubt.

Geschrieben von: Kant Sep 27 2009, 15:55

I just wanted to say that there's no connection between the harm a drug can produce and its status in german law(like noispheratu suggested) and that legal plants containing a drug(Brugmansia Aurea) are not allowed for selling them as one(except Tobacco).


Außerdem dachte ich die Umgangssprache sei Englisch in diesem Unterforum... tongue.gif

Geschrieben von: Surak Dec 7 2012, 04:06

http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/tipping-point-marijuana-reform smile.gif

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Dec 7 2012, 15:12

I hope So!

Frankly: it STILL seems very counter-productive to me to ban plants and to jail people over touching banned plants.

Geschrieben von: Surak Dec 8 2012, 05:33

There's definitely some kind of change coming up it seems. Anyone read those news saying http://www.n-tv.de/leute/Sean-Penn-wird-Koka-Botschafter-article7617076.html? huh.gif

What would the US President say if he was asked whether he could http://www.richrath-express.de/shop/images/artikel/57776587.jpg? biggrin.gif

Geschrieben von: Sea Mac Dec 8 2012, 20:30

QUOTE
  (Quoth http://www.allsubs.org/search-movie-quotes/mark+my+words/ (in part):  devil.png  " ... mark my words with a red grease pencil .... ")


I believe the BIGGEST change in attitudes, overall, will come on Christmas afternoon of this Year.

I'm putting all my faith on some sort of "cosmic notice" of CHANGE.

I'll wait and See.

Geschrieben von: Surak Dec 9 2012, 08:06

Significant difference between English and Spanish vocabulary: http://guyharveysportswear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/356Hungry-Tuna-8x11.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opuntia_ficus-indica!

Might that have started the war on drugs? huh.gif

To stay out of trouble, always mind the difference! Example:
http://www.fagron.de/
http://www.fraron.de/

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